Right before I was going to lay down I received an email from a good friend of mine inviting me to comment on a thread on his blog. I'll try and give you the cliff notes.
In the comments section at the end of his post he put forth a question. Without him taking a position, he wanted to hear both sides, both for and against, to the following:
"An argument exists that says the idea of God judging nations is an Old Testament concept... that all judgment for sin occured at the cross and so therefore no judgment of any kind is awaiting nations, as sinful as they are. Question: Does God judge nations today? If so, upon what basis in light of Christ’s work on the cross?So what he puts out there for discussion is whether or not God judges nations today. The following was my response on his blog.
Posted by Jay on September 4, 2011 at 2:30 pm
"The argument is an extension of Calvinism and the TULIP doctrine. They are superimposing it over the political and social issues of our day. It is another way of saying, “Peace and Safety.” (1 Thess 5:3)
Is the Grace of God a license for immorality (Jude 4)? Do nation-states reap and sow just as individuals do (Galatians 6:7,8)? Do nations experience judgement?
Isaiah 24 speaks of an “everlasting covenant” that has been broken by the nation states of the earth, specifically verse 5 and 6. It also clarifies the consequence for breaking this law of conscience, even amongst nations that did not know the spiritual rock Jehovah Jireh.
Revelation 6 speaks of the Lamb who is worthy to open the seals, releasing 4 horsemen upon the earth to conquer, to make men slay each other with the sword, to disrupt fair trade and plunge men into poverty and hunger, to release plagues on the earth, to release the wild beasts of the earth, and to harvest on behalf of Death and Hades.
Has God judged nations since the our Lord’s cruxificion and resurrection? Paul said, “In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.” 1 Thess 2:16First I want to say that I love my friend who author's the blog I am qouting. I love his heart, his ministry and his writing. I love his whole family. He is married to a godly woman. They bear good fruit in Christ. They have great kids. They are trustworthy people. In no way is my comment a correction of him or anything he is doing in the Lord. I am not directing my response at him. I have even now put a link on my blog to his blog, The Sage of Texas. And I am extremely selective when I do that. I am encouraging others to read his blog and receive from him. Just want to make sure I am being clear.
Even back to the time of Cain and Abel, man has experienced consequences for shedding innocent blood. God judged the world in Noah’s time because of this. After he got off the ark the Lord told him not to shed blood (Genesis 9:5,6) and that if he did there would be consequences. This was a component of the law of conscience which has always trumped old covenant law (See David eating the consecrated bread in 1 Samuel).
Japan’s judgment for what they did to China during WWII. Germany’s judgment for what they did to Europe. The judgment of the Armenians for not listening to God during World War I (and they were Christians). France’s judgment from 1915 to 1945 for what they did to the Huguenot Christians several centuries before. God’s judgment on Jerusalem and Judah in 70 A.D. God’s judgement on the Roman Empire for what they did to the Mediterranean rim. God’s judgment on Britain’s economy for what they did to North Africa (slavery), the southern U.S. (slavery), India and China (the opium trade) during the 1800′s.
Does he judge nation states? Can the United States murder 53 million children through abortion, 8 times more than the Nazi’s did in all of Europe, and think the party will continue? Really? Jesus threw over a few tables for some money changers. How much more should we be turning over these false arguments over 53 million children."
But my response was to a question he posed from a neutral position and it was directed specifically at the other side of the argument which I believe is rooted in falsehood, specifically in Calvinism and to some degree in Dominion Theology/Kingdom Now Doctrine. Truthfully, if you have been following the posts on this blog for any length of time and you have been taking it in then you know my position on this in the Lord.
Read Here, Here, and Here if you need a refresher. If not, keep reading.
Brethren, America is falling and has been progressively for many years now. Let me explain why I am bringing this up again like I have in the past months.
Coincidentally, this morning, I saw on the news that a new world record had been set by the Jamaican Men's 4 x 100 Sprint Relay Team at the world championships in South Korea just this morning. The men's 4 x 100 sprint relays are, in my mind, the most exciting 38 to 40 seconds in all of sports. Now 37 seconds. It's all about raw straightline power, speed and intensity.
But in this particular race we have what I believe is a prophetic symbol of sorts. You see, at about the 30 second mark something terrible happens to the runner on the third leg of U.S. men's team. He falls and the American team doesn't finish. Watch the film up until about the 1:00 minute mark. Then skip all of Usain Bolt's hot-dogging and fast forward it to the 3:20 mark of the video. They show the American falling in slow motion.
The American runner loses balance and just falls between strides. You know, this has happened recently to both of the U.S. contestants at the Miss Universe Pageants in 2007 and 2008.
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| Miss USA @ Miss Universe 2007 |
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| Miss USA @ Miss Universe 2008 |
Bless their hearts. I felt bad for the U.S. runners and for these 2 ladies. Yet these symbols are out there on the international stage for all to see. And they are not happening by accident. Joseph Herrin does a good post on the symbolism of some of these events as well. You can Click Here to read the whole thing later. But I want to pull something from it and quote it here. This is what he interpreted about Miss U.S.A falling 2 years in a row. I think it is very forthtelling.
"In 2007 Rachel Smith fell down while walking on stage at the Miss Universe pageant, and this year, 2008, Crystle Stewart did the same thing. No other contestant experienced the same. Consider for a moment how appropriately this contest was chosen. All the nations of the world are gathered for this event. Each country is symbolized by one woman. And for the past two years, the woman symbolizing the USA has fallen down as she stood before all the world, in a moment when she hoped to impress all those who looked upon her."Joseph Herrin is right. The matter has been firmly decided by God. Both ladies names are in fact significant. Rachel for the reason he stated above:
"Rachel was the name of the favorite wife of Jacob. She died giving birth to her son Benjamin. God will bring forth a purified remnant from the midst of the church in America, even though it should require the death of the nation as we know it."
"In an article I read today on the event, it was said that falling down was “the death knell” for any participant as far as their chances of winning the competition. The judges looked for how much poise and grace the contestants manifested on stage, and falling down was sure to end any chance of them winning. Is it not strange that this last event took place in Viet Nam, the infamous war that America failed to win?"
"That this event has occurred two years in a row, being repeated at the same stage of the event, the evening gown portion, reveals some profound truths. The word “evening” speaks of the last hours of the day before night falls, and all is plunged into darkness. That this same event occurred two years in a row bears the same meaning that Joseph declared to Pharaoh when God repeated his dreams to him twice."
"Now as for the repeating of the dream to Pharaoh twice, it means that the matter is determined by God, and God will quickly bring it about." Genesis 41:32
God has determined this matter. This is to say that His mind is made up and now there is no turning back what He has determined. There is only a sure expectation that these things will come, therefore the wise should do whatever the Spirit tells them to do that they might be made ready. It will quickly come to pass. This judgment is no longer years away. It will commence presently.....As I mentioned, the signs of distress are everywhere apparent."
"Rachel was the name of the favorite wife of Jacob. She died giving birth to her son Benjamin. God will bring forth a purified remnant from the midst of the church in America, even though it should require the death of the nation as we know it."Rachel was first to fall in 2007. Then in 2008 it was Crystle that fell. The name Crystle is derived from the proper name Crystal and can be defined as: to take on a solid shape or form when atoms or molecules begin to arrange in definite and repeated patterns. (See Websters Dictionary).
When the Lord begins to speak on things repeatedly it means it's important. Real important. Four times in John 14 &15 Jesus said that if we loved him, we would obey him. Romans 1:28 says that men get into trouble with God when they don't retain his word. The word for retain (NIV) in the Greek is Echo. The word of God echoes. 2 Corinthians 13 says that things become established through the repeated witnessing of 2 or 3 members of the body.
My point is that as events occur repetitiously they, in many cases, become a sign of what God is saying. He is in effect trying to Crystalize his word. He is causing it to take a solid shape and form. In this case it is the fact that America, as symbolized by the American runner and the two beauty contestants, is falling. America is falling.
America will fall. The signs are everywhere if you know what to look for. I think in the next post I should talk about the four-fold judgment of Ezekiel 14. The dominoes are falling and the first one has almost completely hit the ground. Ezekiel 14 is happening in America right now.
Stay Alert.
JEB
http://www.miraclesinmerida.blogspot.com/.
VERY interesting.
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